A Classic O’Reilly Slugfest, Part IComments on: - by http://robertringer.com/2009/06/a-classic-oreilly-slugfest-part-i/ In Support of Laissez-Faire Capitalism and Individual Freedom Mon, 21 May 2012 21:45:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: saturnx311http://robertringer.com/2009/06/a-classic-oreilly-slugfest-part-i/#comment-2509 saturnx311 Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:26:30 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=670#comment-2509 Oh, one other thing Cherie: morality is not subjective. There is Right and there is Wrong, and as you grow and mature spiritually I think you'll see this. Oh, one other thing Cherie: morality is not subjective. There is Right and there is Wrong, and as you grow and mature spiritually I think you’ll see this.

]]> By: saturnx311http://robertringer.com/2009/06/a-classic-oreilly-slugfest-part-i/#comment-2508 saturnx311 Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:21:11 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=670#comment-2508 Cherie, I also consider myself a libertarian, and believe that personal responsibility is the way that should determine many of the laws we live under, especially the illegal drug laws--but that is a discussion for another time. I really, really want to believe that you are sincere and true to yourself as you write the post, but I find it difficult since you are only repeating the mantra that a multi-billion dollar industry uses as its way to "sell" abortions to a public that's proven itself to be malleable in the face of effective advertising. To this industry and the "doctors" that take money from it, the dollar is God-- the great Equalizer which balances off the moral side of the equation by a huge margin. How true to yourself are you? When you really contemplate it, are you willing to believe that the lack of responsibility running rampant in our society is OK-- that you should be free to have sex without thinking of the consequences? It hasn't been mentioned here but there is also Restraint-- the instinct that makes people think before they drink large quantities of alcohol maybe, or the natural fear of heights that keeps us from the edge of the cliff. Restraint is something that exists within us naturally, but the Media like to glorify in the lack of it. And so also does the huge industry that is parroting the phrase, "My body--my choice". They have an effective advertising campaign, don't they? Well, when you make the "choice" to have casual sex, the life growing inside you becomes your responsibility to protect-- not destroy without a second thought. I cannot say it more eloquently than KevinM so I simply refer you back to his post. In one wing of a hospital, doctors are desperately trying to save the life of a premeture baby while in another wing a "doctor" is perfoming an abortion on a "fetus" in the same week of pregnancy. Does this picture disturb you? It should. Cherie, I also consider myself a libertarian, and believe that personal responsibility is the way that should determine many of the laws we live under, especially the illegal drug laws–but that is a discussion for another time.
I really, really want to believe that you are sincere and true to yourself as you write the post, but I find it difficult since you are only repeating the mantra that a multi-billion dollar industry uses as its way to “sell” abortions to a public that’s proven itself to be malleable in the face of effective advertising. To this industry and the “doctors” that take money from it, the dollar is God– the great Equalizer which balances off the moral side of the equation by a huge margin.
How true to yourself are you? When you really contemplate it, are you willing to believe that the lack of responsibility running rampant in our society is OK– that you should be free to have sex without thinking of the consequences?
It hasn’t been mentioned here but there is also Restraint– the instinct that makes people think before they drink large quantities of alcohol maybe, or the natural fear of heights that keeps us from the edge of the cliff.
Restraint is something that exists within us naturally, but the Media like to glorify in the lack of it. And so also does the huge industry that is parroting the phrase, “My body–my choice”. They have an effective advertising campaign, don’t they?
Well, when you make the “choice” to have casual sex, the life growing inside you becomes your responsibility to protect– not destroy without a second thought.
I cannot say it more eloquently than KevinM so I simply refer you back to his post.
In one wing of a hospital, doctors are desperately trying to save the life of a premeture baby while in another wing a “doctor” is perfoming an abortion on a “fetus” in the same week of pregnancy. Does this picture disturb you?
It should.

]]> By: BigDhttp://robertringer.com/2009/06/a-classic-oreilly-slugfest-part-i/#comment-2507 BigD Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:27:53 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=670#comment-2507 Forgive me if I'm coming across as rude, Mr. Ringer, but in your book "Looking out for #1", at one point, you talk about how you treat everything you hear as false until you see it for your own eyes and you talk about how, unless one has first-hand knowledge on a subject, they're not in a position to lecture others on it. Where is your first-hand knowledge that a child in the womb is alive? Please understand that I myself do believe that life begins at conception, but in keeping with what I believe is your view of such situations, I lack any first-hand knowledge on the facts of conception, the fetus, and abortion and thus I'm not in a position to tell others if it's right or wrong. Forgive me if I’m coming across as rude, Mr. Ringer, but in your book “Looking out for #1″, at one point, you talk about how you treat everything you hear as false until you see it for your own eyes and you talk about how, unless one has first-hand knowledge on a subject, they’re not in a position to lecture others on it. Where is your first-hand knowledge that a child in the womb is alive?

Please understand that I myself do believe that life begins at conception, but in keeping with what I believe is your view of such situations, I lack any first-hand knowledge on the facts of conception, the fetus, and abortion and thus I’m not in a position to tell others if it’s right or wrong.

]]> By: rbettnerhttp://robertringer.com/2009/06/a-classic-oreilly-slugfest-part-i/#comment-2506 rbettner Sun, 21 Jun 2009 16:08:16 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=670#comment-2506 Robert...As much as I admire your willingness to speak out to help educate a mostly apathetic public, I emphatically disagree with several of your comments in this article. To begin with to call Bill O'Reilly even handed is about the same as saying a Columbine style bully is just a kid with too much personality. He is not interested in the getting to truth or honest debate but in humiliating any guests that don't share his often narrow and bigoted views. To promote him as an hones broker of truth only hurts our end game. Of course that is also true of 60 Minutes, 20-20, et al. Let's turn off the whole genre and quit pretending they are news or honest debate and get to focus on the real threat...the systematic and rapid destruction of all personal freedom in this country. Robert…As much as I admire your willingness to speak out to help educate a mostly apathetic public, I emphatically disagree with several of your comments in this article.

To begin with to call Bill O’Reilly even handed is about the same as saying a Columbine style bully is just a kid with too much personality. He is not interested in the getting to truth or honest debate but in humiliating any guests that don’t share his often narrow and bigoted views. To promote him as an hones broker of truth only hurts our end game.

Of course that is also true of 60 Minutes, 20-20, et al. Let’s turn off the whole genre and quit pretending they are news or honest debate and get to focus on the real threat…the systematic and rapid destruction of all personal freedom in this country.

]]> By: MeMeMehttp://robertringer.com/2009/06/a-classic-oreilly-slugfest-part-i/#comment-2505 MeMeMe Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:41:07 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=670#comment-2505 Well, reasonable people, what you do with your own body may be your own business, but the fetus is not your own body. Regarding defense No.1, a fetus is a parasite on a woman's body that she has a right to get rid of, what did the fetus do to deserve death?. With regard to defense No.2, a fetus is not a human being, I saw a bumper sticker that says it best- "If a fetus is not a human, you're not pregnant! Abortion is legal, but bear in mind a person who procures one, and the people who encourage, will have to face God and account for it. THINK OF NUMBER ONE, first, remember him/her? Well, reasonable people, what you do with your own body may be your own business, but the fetus is not your own body.
Regarding defense No.1, a fetus is a parasite on a woman’s body that she has a right to get rid of, what did the fetus do to deserve death?. With regard to defense No.2, a fetus is not a human being, I saw a bumper sticker that says it best- “If a fetus is not a human, you’re not pregnant!

Abortion is legal, but bear in mind a person who procures one, and the people who encourage, will have to face God and account for it. THINK OF NUMBER ONE, first, remember him/her?

]]> By: KevinMhttp://robertringer.com/2009/06/a-classic-oreilly-slugfest-part-i/#comment-2504 KevinM Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:24:33 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=670#comment-2504 Cherie--I too am a libertarian and consider freedom to be a high priority. However we can't use freedom as a justification to trample or ignore the natural order. All freedom is limited by that order and whether or not we like that limitation is of little consequence--we're still subject to it. In that context, it is a fact that women have been assigned the child bearing responsibility by God (or at least by nature, if that's your preferred belief). It IS a societal issue because child bearing is the ONLY means of continuation of the human race, therefore the child bearing responsibility is foundational to society and to human existence. That's the natural order, and it isn't subject to change or debate no matter what anyone on the planet thinks is right or fair. With that responsibilty comes the obligation to protect and preserve that life. The idea that any woman doesn't like that order may be understandable but it doesn't extend to granting the woman the option to terminate a pregnancy for what is in the vast majority of cases a matter of birth control. Like it or not, if a society is truly just, the preservation of life should never be subordinated to a "woman's right to choose", as though that right is the higher virtue of the two. Notice how every pro-choice argument starts with the assumption that what's developing inside isn't a life. That's the foundation upon which the entire pro-choice argument rests--otherwise we're talking about murder! Notice too that when a woman intends to deliver, she calls it a "baby"; if she wants to abort, the baby is called a "fetus". The very language of abortion is self-protective and completely ignores the basic human directive to protect the lives within our charge. In our culture, we like to believe that we can become what ever or who ever we want--even if we have to pass laws to make it happen. But the world imposes limits on us despite our best efforts to turn things in a different direction. If you are a woman, you are the child bearer, and carry a sacred responsibility to the life you are carrying inside. You have options: to participate in sex or not, to use avaible birth control or not--which is a nice set of options. However if that birth control extends to terminating a life then there's something far more important involved than your right to choose. Cherie–I too am a libertarian and consider freedom to be a high priority. However we can’t use freedom as a justification to trample or ignore the natural order. All freedom is limited by that order and whether or not we like that limitation is of little consequence–we’re still subject to it.

In that context, it is a fact that women have been assigned the child bearing responsibility by God (or at least by nature, if that’s your preferred belief). It IS a societal issue because child bearing is the ONLY means of continuation of the human race, therefore the child bearing responsibility is foundational to society and to human existence. That’s the natural order, and it isn’t subject to change or debate no matter what anyone on the planet thinks is right or fair.

With that responsibilty comes the obligation to protect and preserve that life. The idea that any woman doesn’t like that order may be understandable but it doesn’t extend to granting the woman the option to terminate a pregnancy for what is in the vast majority of cases a matter of birth control.

Like it or not, if a society is truly just, the preservation of life should never be subordinated to a “woman’s right to choose”, as though that right is the higher virtue of the two.

Notice how every pro-choice argument starts with the assumption that what’s developing inside isn’t a life. That’s the foundation upon which the entire pro-choice argument rests–otherwise we’re talking about murder! Notice too that when a woman intends to deliver, she calls it a “baby”; if she wants to abort, the baby is called a “fetus”. The very language of abortion is self-protective and completely ignores the basic human directive to protect the lives within our charge.

In our culture, we like to believe that we can become what ever or who ever we want–even if we have to pass laws to make it happen. But the world imposes limits on us despite our best efforts to turn things in a different direction.

If you are a woman, you are the child bearer, and carry a sacred responsibility to the life you are carrying inside. You have options: to participate in sex or not, to use avaible birth control or not–which is a nice set of options. However if that birth control extends to terminating a life then there’s something far more important involved than your right to choose.

]]> By: Sirlukehttp://robertringer.com/2009/06/a-classic-oreilly-slugfest-part-i/#comment-2503 Sirluke Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:20:51 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=670#comment-2503 Some good arguments listed at the following website: http://l4l.org/ Would like to hear from those that appose Doris Gordan's ideas. Some good arguments listed at the following website:

http://l4l.org/

Would like to hear from those that appose Doris Gordan’s ideas.

]]> By: cheriemirandahttp://robertringer.com/2009/06/a-classic-oreilly-slugfest-part-i/#comment-2502 cheriemiranda Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:10:17 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=670#comment-2502 Robert, I consider myself a libertarian, and I absolutely love your work. However, as a freedom lover, how do you justify removing freedom of choice from the one thing over which we should enjoy it most - our bodies? Regardless of whether you find abortion moral or immoral (morality is completely subjective, anyway), the bigger issue at hand is freedom. Imagine living in a society that tells you what you can and cannot do with your OWN BODY? Hmmm.... Again, love your work and philosophies, but I see a conflict here and would be curious as to how you reconcile your belief in freedom with your belief in the restriction of a woman's rights over her own body. I can see where you might go with it...and it should be fun! :) Cherie Robert,

I consider myself a libertarian, and I absolutely love your work. However, as a freedom lover, how do you justify removing freedom of choice from the one thing over which we should enjoy it most – our bodies? Regardless of whether you find abortion moral or immoral (morality is completely subjective, anyway), the bigger issue at hand is freedom. Imagine living in a society that tells you what you can and cannot do with your OWN BODY? Hmmm….

Again, love your work and philosophies, but I see a conflict here and would be curious as to how you reconcile your belief in freedom with your belief in the restriction of a woman’s rights over her own body. I can see where you might go with it…and it should be fun! :)

Cherie

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